Wednesday, July 23, 2014

BETA: Let's Go All the Way

As a rule I don't feel the need to comment on Class Changes in Beta, because there are far more qualified people doing just that. However, this morning I stopped and stared at the latest Class Changes for Hunters. When I'd stopped laughing, I decided it was time for some searing and informed dissection of this latest change:

So, to be clear: I will, in Raids and Groups come Warlords take on one of the Warrior's traditional roles. I will become a Stance Dancer.


This will obviously not make me into a cheeky, scampering woodland creature.


The immediate aftermath of this change will automatically result in conversations of the following ilk amongst players:


Then the Hunter bemoaning this change will stop, think and wonder exactly WHY we did get this new spell?

No, I don't know either ^^

In all seriousness, Healers have stuff like Spiritwalker's Grace (Shaman still have that in Warlords, right?) Locks and Mages have a talent to be able to cast and move too (you still get that in Beta?) I know other people complain about the need to 'static' cast but surely people can learn to co-ordinate cast times and not being stationary? What is the actual motivation for giving a Hunter an opportunity, every three minutes, to cast a spell that allows everyone else six seconds not to worry about something I've spent ten years learning to master properly and have still not fully grasped? I realise that we have absolutely no useful Aspects any more except the ability to make everyone think they're at the end of the Benny Hill Show, and I now know how it must feel to be a Warlock or Mage, except of course they can't roll on all of the loot ^^

Celebrate you don't live in the 1970's ^^

I am aware this is Beta, and things are quote Subject to change unquote but how about we clarify a few points here:

  1. Raid Utility is not about covering other people's ample behinds. It is about providing something that is missing from the makeup in a raid's key composition, ensuring more chances of success. Giving an ability every three minutes for a Hunter to save the raid will require some pretty impressive co-ordination, unless you are psychically-linked to the player in question. (I'm assuming that Top 200 Raid Teams are all hive minds as standard anyway [*]) Cue screams of 'FOX!!!!!!!' on Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak as all notions of politeness are dispensed with.

  2. Why don't you give all the other classes MORE opportunities to move while doing their jobs like Hunters have? Oh yeah, that would mean PvP became impossible to balance, and WE WOULDN'T WANT THAT (actually you know what I'm okay with PvP currently so let's just leave that point and move on.)

  3. Having been out in the Beta World and having died on numerous occasions not simply to lag  to a HUGE number of new Vignettes and Silver Spawns who employ spells that make it nigh-on IMPOSSIBLE to stay still and cast anything without you taking damage, maybe the problem here isn't allowing players the ability to move more in PvE. Perhaps the bigger issue here should be how you plan boss fights so they move LESS. [**]

It normally takes a couple of days after a change is instigated for the reasoning to become apparent behind it, and it's been some time since I've made a mental note to ensure I look out for the back-story on this one. Personally I miss the days of ACTUAL utility with abilities like Serpent Sting, when I could be doing some GENUINE USE on a Boss and give healers a reason to heal me as a priority, even though they didn't need to because I could drop OOC and bandage. Yes, I know: I'm a pernicity old cynic who's seen everything and finds myself wondering of ALL the things Blizzard could choose to throw into the ring at this point to make Hunters feel more useful...

Really, this is the BEST you could do?

[FX: Goes back to rocking chair on porch, grumbling.]




Drea B said...

I assume it is there so they can design mythic boss fights around the ability :)

Grimmtooth said...


"Raid Utility is not about covering other people's ample behinds. "

Correct, that's called "being a healer." Have to call it something else.


"Giving an ability every three minutes for a Hunter to save the raid will require some pretty impressive co-ordination, unless you are psychically-linked to the player in question."

Raid-saving? Really? Talk about being on the edge of a knife, here.


It takes me six seconds just to realize I can move while casting when I have something like that going on. And it takes me TWENTY to remember where the button is to make all that happen. Kinda glad my raiding guilds have both fallen apart - people have enough reasons to yell at me without something like THAT.


The Dwarf climbed down from the podium, turned to face the crowd, and muttered, "I'm out!" as he popped Disengage. Due to poor raid awareness, he sailed out of the front door right into the path of a wandering tornado. As he whirled out of sight, the last words anyone heard from him were, "See what I meeeeeeeaaaaaaaammmmmmmmm!?"

We shall not see his likes again. And our raid performance has increased as a result.

dobablo said...

Massive warlock nerf. Suddenly one of our talents had been hugely devalued.

You know how you see all those raiders that jump or step when a boss requires everyone to stop dps? Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

Fierydemise said...

Aspect of the Fox is a really cool piece of raid utility. It’s more than just “reduces raid damage by 10% for 6 seconds” and it’s a very versatile ability. The key idea with AotF is not that it will be used reactively, as you note most classes have their movement abilities they can use while moving. AotF is for times when mass raid movement is needed, something like empowered whirling corruption on Garrosh. The power is people can now cast while moving during this raid wide movement and still have their personal movement abilities for reacting to mechanics targeting them.

On the more general question of “why are we trying to reduce caster movement in PvE?” it isn't just about PvP balance. Giving casters high mobile dps capabilities creates huge melee vs. ranged dps balance issues. The ability to dps while moving what the traditional benefit of melee dps and as casters have gained greater mobile dps tools over the past few expansions they have in many places surpassed melee dps in a raid environment. There are a number of ways to solve this, such as balancing ranged dps to do less damage but each come with their own set of balance issues.

You get at what I think is the most valid complaint about AotF with your comment about Top 200 guilds. If you look at reactions to this ability, high end guilds love it, other people not so much. AotF scales with raid coordination very wall when raid movement is preplanned and can be carefully coordinated. In raids with less coordination the benefits of AotF fall off substantially.

Jasyla said...

I thought they were supposed to be moving away from having 600 cooldowns that need to be assigned for every boss fight?

I totally agree that this should not be a hunter ability. It seems like a lot to ask that the hunter pop it at the correct time, and that every raider be aware of the exact 6 seconds it's up in order to maximize its use.

Draynee said...

This totally slipped my mind earlier today, but they tried to implement this Aspect back in the Mists beta, only as a buff for the hunter to be able to move and cast cobra shot. Bizzaro that it would make a beta appearance again as something totally useless to the hunter herself.